Recommended Service Intervals

May 22, 2008,19:44 PM
 

I feel predicting service intervals for watches, solely on the life of "watch oil", is too absolute. There are many watch oils used in watch repair all with varied properties. On top of the extensive list of oils are contributing factors to service life. I will try my best to explain my thoughts on the subject but I am afraid it won't be very brief. I hope some of you enjoy the read and those that do not, I apologize for the length as it is a wee bit more than 2 cents worth..

 

_Recommended Service Intervals_

 

Factory recommended service intervals and watchmaker's recommended service intervals are based on many factors and their relation to the specific watch in question. I say "watch" as the movement is but one factor in this equation and thus cannot be directly compared to other brand's watches using a similar movement.

 

Real world experiences are constantly analyzed by credible watch companies. Some companies take the "wait and see" approach to R&D and wait for the big dogs to find the answers. Either way, answers are being found as evidence is compiled from the service centers and from authorized watchmaker's reports.

 

 Some brands update their service interval times with improvements in repair methods or changes in oils or materials. Other brands prefer to repeat age old advice figuring "better safe then sorry". While still other brands give extended service intervals regardless of associated data. These companies figure as long as the sales figures are not affected it can act as a selling point, and view the additional repair costs as a factor of their sales profits.

 

Retailers often give generic across-the-board recommendations. Customers don't want to be told their potential new watch needs to be serviced within a year because it is manual wind. Retailers/brands don't want to tell a customer this either. It can spoil a sale! The money is made on the sale with the service loss figured as a general factor of company operations. As a general rule, at least for the brands I am familiar with and/or trained on, service is a money loss for the companies. The service prices are an attempt to soften the blow to the company.

 

I personally give the advice of 1-3 years for manual wind watches and 3-5 years for automatics watches. The shorter end of the range is for everyday wear and the longer end of the time frame for occasional use as part of a collection. Results will vary depending on the owner and the specific watch.  I then can adjust this advice based on my experience and knowledge of the whole package in question or if I know the customer's habits will affect the performance of the watch. This is to maintain the watch in good working order. This especially needs to be followed for watches with limited parts availability. If a watch is being left in storage and is not on a winder it probably can go a little longer between servicing IF the owner knows that all oils are synthetic, the watch has been oiled in the ideal manner and epilame has been used to keep the oil from spreading while stored. Those watches kept on a winder should be considered daily wearers as they are always running. It is at the customer's discretion if they choose to make the financial gamble of increasing the wear on their components to lengthen the service interval and save money. This method can work well for those people looking to save money and who are not interested in keeping their machine in the best of conditions. They just need to be careful should the parts become unavailable during their extended service interval.

 

 

My recommendations are based on experience with oils used 3-5-10-30+ years ago and do not factor in recent additions of new oils. I will have to wait and see the results from recently serviced watches using current oils. Either way, oil is only one of 3 main factors I use in estimating service intervals. Those 3 factors are:

1) Gasket life and subsequent water resistance

2) Customer variables such as chemicals and sports

3) Oil life

 

.

 

Basically, a recommendation is only as good as the person or company giving it and the interpretation is only as good as the ears it falls on!

 

 

 

_Recent Updates_

Recent updates in oils used in the watch industry appear to have significant improvements in their respected areas.  I will wait to see the results for myself but what I have seen is very promising. In my opinion, the most significant changes lately, with regards to friction, have been in the heavy oil/light grease arena and Fixodrop adoption.

 

•           For those of you unfamiliar with Fixodrop, it is an epilame and has been used by the factories for a long time but is being more and more accepted and used by factory service centers and watchmakers. Epilame is a surface treatment that reduces the effective surface tension of a material. This makes the relation to the oil's surface tension disproportionate and causes the oil to pool in more of a droplet form. Some well respected people still view epilame as voodoo that is unnecessary and detrimental to the performance of a watch. Many watchmakers still simply misunderstand its purpose and application. This, I think is partly due to Rolex's use of Epilame on their reversers in their automatics. Because watchmakers with old school training or experience are familiar with oiling old school reversers like those in an Omega 550 or ETA 2824, they think Epilame is some sort of dry lubricant. This is not correct at all. Epilame is fundamental to proper functioning of the Rolex style reversers because their click systems in the reverser have only one pivot while the other side of the click rests flat against the inside of the reverser. Should oil find its way to this spot the reverser will fail to function properly. The increase in surface tension of the oil on the flat side of the click prevents the click from performing properly.  Rolex trains the proper method of epilame application but this doesn't always get to everyone.

 

This picture shows the underside of the Rolex style reverser with the single pivot click hiding under the rim. From this angle the pivot is on the bottom of the click.

 

Top side of reverser

 

Over oiled reverser

 

 

An older ETA reverser has 2 pivots on its clicks and thus is not affected in this way. Modern ETA reversers require oil like the older styles but have only one pivot. Each design hase plus' and minus' and should be serviced accordingly.

 

Some go so far as to ban epilame from their service practices claiming it is bad but the "special treatment" from the factory is ok but nonrenewable. Should such a "special treatment" no longer appear effective, the part should be replaced. This is just silliness. When a watch repair trainer tells me this, I know it is a cover-up for a corporate policy. For some reason brands tend to filter the truth to watchmakers. The policy of replacing a treated part instead of reapplying epilame is not because the treatment cannot be renewed. It is because it is easier and cheaper than training and monitoring of the proper application procedure.

 

Improper application of epilame can cause serious problems in a movement.

 

 

 

 

 

•           2) The heavy oil/light grease arena, as with any oiling discussion, is very controversial. D5 is a common oil that fits this bill. Some watchmakers view it as a grease and others view it as an oil. I view it as an oil because it is a pretty fluid liquid at room temperature. This means that is runs away from were you put it (without epilame) and is too light to be used with great results in areas that have high pressure (relative to watch movements). The biggest argument for it being a grease is ETA's extensive use of D5 in their oiling charts. It is my understanding that complete ETA movements are assembled by robots. Therefore, it is my opinion that it is probably easier and cheaper to use fewer oils and greases. For any corporation making millions of something, saving a penny per item saves a lot of money. This seems to work for them but is not the ideal application. D5 started it's life as a natural oil. It is my understanding it was later made into a semi-synthetic oil and today is almost completely replaced with the fully synthetic HP series of oils (specifically HP-1000). Not everyone is keen on adopting it, claiming little difference other than color. I think the underlying price is a consideration. Watchmakers, as a species, tend to be quite frugal and cling to what we already know. As a note, D5 is listed at $33 and HP-1000 is listed at $99.50 currently by Jules Borel. 

 

 

_Degrading of Oil_

•           Oils do degrade, this is a fact. How long it takes to degrade to an unsatisfactory level is dependent on MANY factors in a dynamically active device such as a wrist watch.

 

_Chemical composition_

•           This is a factor in determining the theoretical life span of the oil by itself without any interaction with heat, pressure or other substances. There are many oils used in the watch industry all with different properties. Fully Synthetic oils tend to be more stable and last longer.

 

 

_Negative Chemical Reactions_

•           An oil can have negative chemical reactions to other substances it is put in contact with. These include off-gassing from dial paints and adhesives (yes this is an issue), UV radiation, remaining residue from previous oils (previously very serious issue), Sharpie markers used to date servicing, exterior chemical contact that is breathed into the watch (potentially cigarette smoke, bleach, detergents etc). The cigarette smoke I can only add by association as certain synthetic oils in servicing clocks are crystallized very quickly if there is a smoker in the house. I would wager radioactive luminous material can also play a part in the death of a good oiling job. If can be detected at the airport and rust parts and destroys dials, why not oils?

 

 

 

_Evaporation rate_

•           The evaporation rate of an oil in a watch is greatly affected by case design and the environment the watch is subjected to. Watch cases breathe as they are not air tight only water tight at best. When subjected to changes in temperature the case and gaskets expand and contract as well as the air inside. When a watch cools down it inhales and when it heats up it breaths out. Anyone wishing to test this need only take there watch off their warm wrist everyday and put on the bathroom counter to cool off while running a steamy shower. The humidity level can increase until a small drop of cold water on the crystal will condense the interior moisture onto the crystal. Beware! Potential damage to dial paint, luminous material, and rust of steel parts and displacement of oil can occur.

 

 

This accumulation of humidity would probably be somewhat negated if the watch is located in a dry climate area where later breathing would limit the buildup of humidity inside the watch case. But then the dryer air reducing the humidity would also increase the evaporation of the oil itself.

 

_Design and finish of the location to be oiled_

•           Surface finish is not just for looks. The surface finish of materials as well as their shape plays a key role in maintaining the oil where it is supposed to stay.

 

 

 

_Heat increases evaporation_

•           As well as dry climates like the southwestern US, evaporative heat can be found in south facing window displays or with hot light fixtures inside show cases. This works fine with jewelry but not with machines like watches.

 

_Pressure related friction_

•           Case related pressure from levers and screw down crowns can cause extreme damage to a movement due to the high pressure levels. This damage is usually seen in the setting area where even the thickest grease like KT-22 will do little to stop it. The stem and crown assembly needs to be specifically engineered to compensate for this added pressure. Just because a movement is ok in a case with a waterproof crown doesn't mean it will be ok if it has a screw down crown or other crown securing device

 

 

•           Pressures from manually winding watches can also cause damage especially when combined with the above crown engineering issues or improper stem installation. These things cause the stem and setting parts to grind into the main plate of the movement and send metal shavings throughout the watch case.  This not only damages the setting area but also contaminates oils as far away as the escapement.

 

 

•           With today's movement designs having multiple complications, more power is needed to drive these functions. The more power stored in a mainspring the more power is needed to overcome the mainspring when winding the watch. This increases the wear in the automatic as well as the setting area. Movements with large mainsprings are more susceptible to this and need to be engineered to accommodate the additional friction. Heavy rotors made of precious metals are more effective at winding the mainspring. This is because they weigh more and have more inertia. This means the more effective they are for moving a mainspring, the more power they have to grind away pivots and bearings and thus need heavier oils. Movements are not always designed with these things in mind at the onset, especially the modified ones that are embellished or retrofitted to modern watches.

 

 

_Friction from Speed_

•           Degrading of oil from friction is also increased by speed of the moving parts. Those parts in a watch with light torque but high speed need an oil that will work properly for that application. This has always been an issue with 36,000bph watches and is the main reason this beat rate has not become more common. If the oil is too thick on a fast moving part it will not flow around the moving part properly.  With regards to escape wheel teeth and pallet stones an oil like 9010 is to thin and can get thrown from the escape wheel. At the very least its travel is increased due to the speed of the moving parts and it will accumulate in an area where it doesn't meet such challenges. Escapement grease such as 941 or 9415 should be used on the pallet stones depending on beat rate. Additional specialty greases for 36,000bph movements need to be used for their escapements.

 

 

_Friction and Wear from Impact_

•           Impact stresses and the related friction from such repetitive activities like golf, hammering nails, and lawn mowing can do immense damage to otherwise very sturdy parts. Less obvious impacts can be just as harmful. I am speaking of the wonderful habit of setting watches crown down on a surface. Some crown systems protect from this sort of damage but as a general rule hammering a stem into a main plate with little taps is like dripping water. Eventually it will wear a hole in just about anything.

 

 

 

_Friction and Wear from a Watchmaker_

•           Friction can be unintentionally introduced from the watchmaker that is assembling the movement (before or after sale). This can be improper end shakes (too large or too small) or more commonly, improperly installed winding stems. This is seen a lot. It is for some reason a common approach to hold a winding stem in a pin vise to shorten it and thread on the new crown. For that matter, it is also used to remove the old crown. This causes 4 scar-like burs to be raised on the main hub (the most common place of clamping) that make the stem now act a milling bur to the main plate. This can ruin a main plate in an extremely short period of time. In such an instance, if one were to reexamine the setting area after all the turning of the stem from fitting the hands and calendar during service, such burs can already have ruined the main plate.

 

 

Another major issue is cleanliness. When assembling a movement, be it at birth or after-sales service, cleanliness is the most important aspect of watch repair. Cleanliness of oil application. Cleanliness of finger prints. Cleanliness of dust. Dust is everywhere no mater how hard we try to clean. It is imperative that dust not get into a movement as it can act like a straw and suck the oil right out of an oil sink.

 

 

 

_Proper Choice of Oil or Grease_

•           Friction is reduced by properly choosing the correct oil or grease for a given application. Oils and greases should be thinnest to thickest (generally speaking) from the balance wheel to the barrel. Another general rule is "oil for turning parts and grease for sliding parts" A turning part such as a center wheel or barrel arbor that is not jeweled to reduce friction will need heavier lubrication. A grease cannot be too thick in the manual winding area as these areas of friction are driven by the power of the human hand and need protection from such high levels of torque. 

 

 

_Proper Oiling Technique_

•           Proper application of said oil/grease will determine if it stays put to protect the interacting components. Less lubrication on the pallet stones will actually stay longer than more lubrication. The same is true elsewhere. Too much lubrication encourages the oil to travel and once it reaches a confined space, capillary attraction will then suck the rest along with it. It can be an interesting conversation to tell a customer that their watch is basically flooded with oil but the dry pivots are all worn out.

 

 

_Humidity_

•           Humidity can degrade oils and their effectiveness. Humidity in a well sealed watch can accumulate from temperature changes as referenced earlier. Other culprits can include cold/hot safes such as those in basements or attics. Hot tubs or cold pools can be great for getting watches wet. Glove boxes in cars are terrible. A hot or cold car can kill your children and is even worse for your watches. The cold can reduce the effectiveness of the oils by thickening them and the heat can encourage the oil to "run away". Humidity can change natural oils, while synthetic oils are less affected. However the resulting rust changes things nicely. Also when the dew point is reached, while perhaps not changed, the oil can be moved from it position thus eliminating its effectiveness.

 

 

 

_Material Failure_

•           Another variable that can affect the oil in a watch is material failure due to time or environmental exposure. By this I mean gaskets.  Gaskets will loose their seal faster do to UV, temperature changes, and exposure to chemicals like chlorine in a pool. Gaskets that loose their pressure allow even more air to exchange until they start allowing water to exchange which is very noticeable.

 

_Manual Wind versus Automatic Wind_

•           As stated above, Manual wind watches need more frequent servicing than automatic watches due to the wear to the setting and winding area as well as the gaskets that wear every time it is wound.

 

_Movement Design_

•           Movement design has a lot to do with how well an oil will last in a watch. I will not get into which is better, old or new, but things change, sometimes for the better and sometimes not. Old school manufacturing of watches dictated that parts like pinions and pivots where thru hardened. Today manufacturing "labor" is much cheaper so companies can save money on expensive tooling by cutting softer metals and then just replace the parts at the service interval. Some pivots and pinions today are case hardened. This has its pro's and con's as well. Less breaking of pivots occurs but complete failure happens after the layer of case hardening is worn through. The pivots can actually get cut off of the pinion. 

 

 

 

_Oil Disposal_

            Many oils can be affected by UV radiation. This is why proper storage is necessary.

            Shelf life recommendations for oils could be in part because companies want to sell a watchmaker more than 2ml of oil in their lifetime. Shelf life recommendations, I think, also have to do with contaminating the oil. I think if you bought a bottle of oil and never inserted anything into it and could pour out the oil (not possible) the synthetic oils would be good for the discussed 15 years to life (in storage not in use). An older sheet kicking around in my drawer from Moebius 9010/9020/9030 states the following: "Moebius synthetic oils do not gum up or age…Changes in humidity do not affect the coefficient of friction."

 

 

However my current oils did not come with the old style paper. My HP-1000 reads on the side of the bottle:

•           R 20/22 Harmful by inhalation and if swallowed

•           R50/53 Very Toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment

•           R62 Possible risk of impaired fertility

•           R63 Possible risk of harm to the unborn child

•           S36/37 Wear suitable protective clothing and gloves

•           S57 Use appropriate container to avoid environmental contamination

•           S60 This material and its container must be disposed of as hazardous waste.

•           S61 Avoid release to the environment. Refer to special instructions/safety data sheets

 

I take this to mean the customer's watch will run fine simply at the cost of my reproductive abilities. Perhaps I should stop using HP-1000 as an ice cream topping!

 

The other reason for discarding oil containers on a regular basis is contamination from use. The oil needs to get out of the container. Usually, this is done by inserting something into the bottle like a screwdriver blade or dip-oiler. While taking oil out of the container, it also provides the opportunity to insert contaminates such as paper towel fibers, metal shavings, finger print oil, rub-off or whatever else was used to "clean" the dip stick. Some oils are now coming prepackaged in syringes to reduce the risk of contaminating the bulk of the oil. This is a great step forward.

 

This is the same reason the oil in our oil cups needs to be discarded at least once a week.

Dip-oilers leave behind metal shavings from rubbing against the agate oil wells in my oil cups as they are not perfectly polished. Plastic oil cups are the opposite and can accumulate plastic shavings. Plastic can also have a chemical reaction to many oils that will reduce there life expectancy. Oils need to be formulated to be chemically neutral when in contact with certain plastics

 

Then again if you listen to my collector friend, these frequent services and high prices are all because watchmakers are over paid grease monkeys. The truth in this can be found by the luxurious lifestyle bench watchmakers enjoy. Only champagne and caviar at morning tea for me!

 

 

I hope some of you enjoyed this.

 

TCP

 

This message has been edited by MTF on 2008-05-23 10:28:19

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Comments: view entire thread

Recommended Service Intervals

 
 By: theCROWNprince : May 22nd, 2008-19:44
I feel predicting service intervals for watches, solely on the life of "watch oil", is too absolute. There are many watch oils used in watch repair all with varied properties. On top of the extensive list of oils are contributing factors to service life. ...

By far and away...

 
 By: pplater : May 22nd, 2008-20:24
...this was one of the most informative and useful posts in recent memory. Many, many thanks. Keep them coming! Cheers, pplater.

Superb informative post!

 
 By: bugbunny : May 24th, 2008-07:22

outstanding post

 
 By: bo : May 24th, 2008-23:46

Wonderful post; thank you

 
 By: The Goal is Soul : May 22nd, 2008-20:40

Thank you TheCrownPrice.

 
 By: Bill : May 22nd, 2008-21:42

My goodness...

 
 By: drsh : May 22nd, 2008-22:07

Outstanding

 
 By: DrStrong : May 22nd, 2008-22:12
thanks for the amazing work, this is a very helpful and informative post. Welcome here ! Jeff

Very informational!

 
 By: ALEPOS : May 22nd, 2008-22:19

Very informative post.

 
 By: Krieng : May 22nd, 2008-22:51

Very impressive macro pics

 
 By: amanico : May 22nd, 2008-23:00
Indeed, when we speak about a perfect finish, we should avoid your macro pics..LOL Seriously a big thank for your post, as the question of servicing a watch is a recurrent question, and now, we know and understand why and when the service is to be made. B...

Advanced Materials

 
 By: theCROWNprince : May 23rd, 2008-18:49
Nicolas, All I can say is 2 materials of the same hardness will wear each other out. The new manufacturing process' produce a better surface finish which will help reduce friction, for how long I do not now. I will leave that to those that have the experi...

Thanks for your views, TCP!

 
 By: amanico : May 24th, 2008-23:57

Thanks very much for your informative post. A novice question:

 
 By: patrickh : May 22nd, 2008-23:46
During normal (standard) service, I suppose they control movement and waterproofness. Did they change oil EVERY TIME (systematically) or only if specify by owner or requested by their examination? Did they dismantle (take to pieces) all the movement at ea...

Some comments...

 
 By: theCROWNprince : May 23rd, 2008-16:22
Patrickh During normal (standard) service, I suppose they control movement and waterproofness. It is the standard practice for watches to be tested for performance and water-resistance before shipping out but sometimes things can fall through the cracks. ...

Thank you very much TCP for your answers,

 
 By: patrickh : May 23rd, 2008-22:15

Thanks to my colleague watchmaker

 
 By: jfsuperior : May 23rd, 2008-06:58
for taking timeout to share this comprehensive analysis of "recommended service intervals" so well explained and supported by illuminating photos any lay person can grasp. I'm impressed with the coverage of a subject so important yet least understood by o...

Thanks for your kind words, Jack!

 
 By: theCROWNprince : May 23rd, 2008-10:02

Excellent post!

 
 By: 1440 : May 23rd, 2008-10:04

Awesome post, thanks for sharing. [nt]

 
 By: Jocke - Bad Santa : May 23rd, 2008-10:54

FOutstanding post! Thank you!

 
 By: francois : May 23rd, 2008-11:36

I asked this before & got some very gray answers

 
 By: precisiontiming : May 23rd, 2008-17:28
All that being said, I have a Maual wind Patek Philippe 5004 Sealed In Plastic Sealed In Box in the Safe Depost box going on 2 years obviously untouched, unwound etc. I would assume temperature is ideal as we are in Coastal California. Does a watch like t...

Service of sealed watches

 
 By: theCROWNprince : May 23rd, 2008-18:29
If you are keeping watches for investment, are they remaining in the sealed never opened plastic? If so, I do not think they need to be serviced. If they are being used this is another issue. If you get your watches out of the safety deposit box and wind ...

Thanks For the Info

 
 By: precisiontiming : May 24th, 2008-03:55
Thank You, it is sealed in plastic & box is sealed also. No problem for moisture. Patek told me that it may need servicing after 5 years or so because the oil could dry up but I don't see how if it is or never has run.

5 year service

 
 By: theCROWNprince : May 24th, 2008-06:43

Superb post!

 
 By: Peter  : May 23rd, 2008-19:18

Fantastic post TCP!

 
 By: SJX : May 23rd, 2008-21:56

Fantastic piece of info!

 
 By: ks : May 23rd, 2008-22:55

Thanks for sharing!!!

 
 By: Lynk999 : May 23rd, 2008-23:38

great read

 
 By: DaMctosh : May 24th, 2008-07:03

Fantastic article...

 
 By: Jolink : May 24th, 2008-07:27

Fantastic article! Copy right protected?

 
 By: ling5hk : May 24th, 2008-09:59

Great information!!

 
 By: Kursman : May 25th, 2008-10:20

Many thanks for the critical info.

 
 By: paulsama : May 25th, 2008-18:34
Very kind of you to share your knowledge with us - Thank you!

Thank for sharing

 
 By: somon : May 26th, 2008-05:26
Fantastic article!! Great pictures! somon

A most excellent post, txs(nt) [nt]

 
 By: MSB : May 26th, 2008-14:44

Fantastic Post YRH :-)

 
 By: SALMANPK : September 26th, 2012-16:54
Thank You and I had a good laugh when I read: " because watchmakers are over paid grease monkeys. The truth in this can be found by the luxurious lifestyle bench watchmakers enjoy. Only champagne and caviar at morning tea for me!" S