The Milsub

Mar 12, 2009,02:16 AM
 

The Rolex “special deliveries” are very appreciated by collectors because of their rarity of course, but also because they are the ultimate expression of the concept of toolwatch, which has made Rolex famous. Some of these watches have the usual features of the “ordinary” models and some other have specific details that make them look even sexier to the eye of the connoisseur. The milsub belongs to this category and the happy few collectors who own one of these watches usually consider them as a keeper in their Rolex sportswatches collection.

A milsub in action (Photo: Mike O’leary)

In the 1970’s, about 1200 Rolex Submariner were made especially for the Royal Navy under the references 5513, 5517 or the double reference 5513/5517. These military Submariners – nicknamed milsubs by the collectors - have the following specificities:

- There is a "T" in a circle above the depth markings, to indicate the presence of tritium in the markers. This feature is shared by other watches issued to the Royal Navy, such as the Omega Seamaster 300. The dials used on the milsubs are all similar except for a small batch of dials with larger markers and a slightly different coronet.

- The hands are specific for this model and are often referred to as "sword" hands (ref. 5513 was also issued with Mercedes hands). Again, this type of hands has also been used on the Omega Seamaster 300 delivered to the Royal Navy.

- The bezel is a standard production, but in some cases (always on ref. 5517 and sometimes on ref. 5513) the insert has minute markings around the whole insert.

- The case spring bars are fixed to fit a NATO strap only.

- The case-back has a MOD (Ministery of Defense) part number engraved, which starts with 0552 or with W10, a triangle with a hat on top and below an issue number and year. The milsubs have been delivered to the MOD in well know batches and their serial numbers correspond to their issue number. The caseback numbers are quite different depending of the delivery and the serial number is also engraved inside the caseback.

There were several configurations of mil subs that are considered correct and original depending on the age and batch.

-         The 5513 milsub has been delivered with either sword hands or mercedes hands from new

-         The 5513 milsub came with either full 60 minute bezel insert or 15 min bezel insert from new.

-         The 5517 milsub was delievered only with sword hands and full 60 minute bezel.

Some milsubs have had their dials repainted by the MOD watchmakers in a very unusual fashion: the resulting dial has a very unorthodox “explorer” display (with 3-6-9 numbers), a huge coronet and an outer chapter ring.

(Photo Mike Wood)

This is a page from BR 2806 Military divng manual 1972 issue – diver’s bible - including information and instructions regarding Military issue watches (scan by Mike O’leary):

here’s a British Royal Navy Minewarfare and Clearance Diving diver wearing Milsub on the cover of a Rolex brochure :

Here’s an amazing GTG of Milsubs during the last 100% Passion meeting in the Netherlands:

(Photo bullibeer)

(Photo PhilippS)

Acknowledgements: thanks to Ed Delgado and Mike O’leary for sharing their informations

 

This message has been edited by DrStrong on 2009-03-12 02:17:17 This message has been edited by DrStrong on 2009-03-12 02:59:35


More posts: 55135517SeamasterSeamaster 300Submariner

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Dear Jeff such a treat thank you! [nt]

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : March 12th, 2009-03:29

I have 2 Rolex Holy Grails

 
 By: amanico : March 12th, 2009-04:25
A Brown Dial ( a slight preference for a 6542 ), and this 5517. So you can imagine my pleasure while discovering that you posted this topic! The Spade Hour Hand version woulmd make my day... No need for me to get the 3 / 6 / 9 dial. You're absolutely true... 

First Milsub was the A/6538 BigCrown like this...

 
 By: Philipps : March 12th, 2009-09:11
Nice report Jeff!! Here mine from III-'57, till today there are only 50 examples maximum known... Together with a 5513 Military regards Philipp...  

holy cow

 
 By: brokenwrist : March 12th, 2009-12:59

Very nice but may I ask, out of pure speculation, ...

 
 By: tuckmode : March 13th, 2009-21:38
Is a bezel on that mil sub original? Somehow it appears to be of a more contempoprary model, say 5513, since it looks a bit out of proportion. Thanks

bezel of the A/6538 was special....

 
 By: Philipps : March 14th, 2009-01:46
made in 'german' silver and closes in design is a 1665 bezel, i used that one as mine came without bezel. Here one of the 2 known with original dial & bezel...as UK Mods had to change the radium dial to a tritium dial in circa '62, those 2 are most probab...  

But why are you doing this to me, Philipps?

 
 By: amanico : March 14th, 2009-02:03
I'm becoming completely crazy ( well, I'm already a bit.. ) With all these Legendary Refs. Thanks for all these informations, my friend. Best, Nicolas

like to have the Military story complete & off course to tease you ;-))

 
 By: Philipps : March 14th, 2009-02:55
g Best regards, Philipp...  

A/6538 without a bezel

 
 By: jeffholgate : April 12th, 2014-13:40
Hi there. I also have an a/6538 milsub and have been looking for a replacement bezel. Was it difficult to find the bezel you used and was it easy to fit. Did it make your watch more desirable/ expensive?

Well...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : April 13th, 2014-04:18
.....desirability is really in the eye of the beholder....does it make it more attractive to you? In terms of expensiveness, along with forum rules, this is not something we discuss here. For sure, finding a correct insert is not an easy process and corre... 

My Milsub [nt]

 
 By: jeffholgate : April 21st, 2014-08:40

Hey Jeff....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : April 21st, 2014-08:56
.....firstly, welcome here! Your scan hasn't attached...if you have any problems doing that....then message me privately and I will take you through the process. Would love to see the Milsub!!

Hi Baron

 
 By: jeffholgate : April 21st, 2014-09:10
That should be it now :) I had it autheniticated at a Rolex daelaer in Edinburgh. Inside has the exact same numbers as yours. It is missing the bezel and the insert nad has had the bars removed. My father had his name engraved on the rear of the case but ... 

Mil Sub

 
 By: jeffholgate : April 21st, 2014-08:59
...  

more pics

 
 By: jeffholgate : April 21st, 2014-12:51
...  

That is a nice piece of history

 
 By: Bill : April 21st, 2014-15:37
You will have many inquiries about the watch. Best Bill

How the bezel went missing

 
 By: jeffholgate : April 21st, 2014-16:19
I think I'm going to get it back to as original a condition as possible then then think about things after that. It has a lot of sentimental value to me . True story, when my father first got the watch at auction in the seventies it has the bezel in place... 

That is an interesting twist.

 
 By: Bill : April 21st, 2014-17:06
Now if only you could find it. Bill

Great post!

 
 By: Peter  : March 12th, 2009-17:50
Thks for sharing

Thanks Peter ! [nt]

 
 By: DrStrong : March 15th, 2009-01:31

Thanks Jeff for this impressive Post...

 
 By: E.J. : March 14th, 2009-14:31
every day I´m more in love with Rolex... and this post make me fall more in this love. True Beast and true tool watches.... icons, indeed. thanks again for this great and instructive post. Best Emilio.

Great post Jeff!! I enjoyed reading and viewing so much!!...

 
 By: Subexplorer : April 22nd, 2014-06:55
... and with lots of interesting additions by our friends here alog the thread! Very nice! Thank You!! Best cordial regards, Abel.