Collecting the Rolex Reference 1680 "Red Sub aka "Single Red"
An Collectors Experience
by Mark Lerman (July 2010)
If you read this article you will be able to tell them apart (scary)!
I have previously owned many Red Subs and currently own all of the watches whose
pictures appear in this article and others. Much of the information that I have
learned over the years about the 1680 Red Submariner was gathered from the
buying and selling process (dealers and original owners), an activity that I
still enjoy today. It is has afforded me the pleasure of meeting some nice and
interesting people and even some great travel opportunities. I would like to
thank and acknowledge my fellow collectors, forum participants and dealers
whose support and guidance over the years has been instrumental in developing
my collection and knowledge base that has culminated in this article.
The Rolex 1680 reference model has to be one of my all time favourite vintage
Rolex Sport models to own, collect and wear. I have decided to pay homage to
this reference and the collectors who appreciate this wonderful model. This is
not intended to be a history of the watch, but a collectors preference and
loose guide. The 1680 is one of the most attractive Rolex sport models, and
certainly on the list as one of the top sport Rolex model icons and in the same
genre as the Double Red Sea Dweller, Daytona, Orange Hand and GMT.
I thought it would be nice to share my passion for this model and possibly
create some more awareness in fellow collectors. The following is my own
personal guide for collecting Red Subs and the information may not be absolute.
In fact, I expect there will be some disagreement and I welcome the discussion
and corrections that follow. I hope vintage Rolex collectors who are not focused
on Red Subs may also find some of this information useful because many of the
concepts can be applied to collecting other Rolex sport models from the same
era.
Red Submariner Dial Varieties and Case Numbers
The Red Submariner was produced with 7 different dial versions that have been
recognized by the collector community.
I have estimated the production range based on my experience with these watches
as follows:
Mark I (Metres First).........................2.07M...2.2M
Mark II/III (Metres First)....................2.2M....2.45M
Mark IV (Open 6 Feet First)...............2.45M...3.?M
Mark V (Open 6 Feet First)................2.?M....3.?M
Mark VI (Closed 6 Feet First).............3.?M....3.999M
Mark VII (White Submariner)............4.0M....7M+
Mark VIII (Luminova).........................Red Sub Service Dial
The above serial number ranges are guidelines and should not be taken
literally, and like a lot of Rolex information out there, may be subject to
some revision. They help me establish some boundaries that to follow in my
collecting endeavours. For example, I will not buy a Red sub with a case number
above 4M or a Metres First with a case number higher than 2.5M.
Why are Mark II/III dials on a single slice as well as the Mark IV/V/VI?
Mark II/III dials appear simultaneously so there is no way to distinguish which
came first. In fact, I would have preferred to call them Mark IIa and IIb. But
I have already seen references to them as Mark II and III, so I did not want to
cause any more confusion. The Mark IV, V and VI have a much more defined
chronological sequence, but I could not clearly define the breaks in the case
numbers, so I kept them together. If anyone has more experience or has some
additional facts, please let me know!
It is not uncommon (but not desirable for serious collectors) to find a later
dial version in an earlier watch case. Such a discrepancy can be explained as
the result of a service received in the decades old history of that individual
watch.
I would be more than a little sceptical of a watch that has an much earlier
dial version that is installed in a much later case. For example, a Mark II/III
dial that is in a case number higher than 3M would raise some big red flags. I
can't easily imagine how that could have happened. It is possible a watchmaker
had a dial lying around and decided to fit a watch that came in for service.
The more likely scenarios is that the watch has have been put together from
spare parts (aka a Frankenwatch). As a general rule, I would simply stay away.
The Dial Variations
Here is a chart that can be used to determine the various dial versions:
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Note: I do not have a Mark VIII (service dial) sample to share. But it's
easy to tell that one apart:
It says only SWISS at the bottom and glows brightly because it is made with
Luminova (not Tritium).
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Dial Notes
The dial is the most valuable component on most Rolex vintage models. The Red
Sub is definitely no exception to this rule. If you have a Red Sub with a dial
that needs to be replaced, a dial in good condition will cost thousands of
dollars and is very difficult to find. It is almost never worth any discount to
buy a watch with an inferior dial.
Tropical Brown Dial aka Chocolate Red Subs
The Brown Sub variant, as rare as it is beautiful, was most likely spawned from
a manufacturing flaw. This makes it highly sought by collectors worldwide. I
would consider a Chocolate Sub a grail watch! In my experience, Brown Dial Subs
are only found in Metres First Mark II & Mark III dials and typically in
case numbers in the 2.2M or 2.3M ranges. Brown dial subs are Ultra Rare because
it is likely that only a small fraction of the dials turned brown and many if
not most of those dials were probably destroyed or replaced during service.
Brown vs. Black Mark II (Left Comparison) Brown vs. Black Mark III (Right
Comparison)
There are a number of theories out about Chocolate Subs, but I believe that
dials turned brown due to unstable materials that were used in their
manufacture. The original paint material was intended to be black, but changed
to brown due to improper mixing ratios or impurities in the chemicals. Whatever
the reason, dials changed colour over some time, possibly months or years after
production. Due to the variances in the brown dials, some environmental factors
such as light/sun exposure, temperature and humidity must have also have played
a role in determining the intensity of the colour change. The colour change
process took place in the first few years and is not ongoing.
Patina or No Patina
The world of Rolex vintage collecting is full of theories and mysteries. I have
yet another theory that is shared by some collectors about how and why the
markers and became yellowish with patina while other watches remained white. By
talking to original owners, I have observed that watches worn regularly, DID
NOT turn yellow, or develop a patina. On the other hand, watches that were
unworn and presumably stored in a drawer or a safety box, turned colour. The
degree of patina or lack thereof probably depended on the amount of light
exposure and other environmental factors not entirely clear to me. Similarly to
the Tropical Brown Sub, the aging process stopped after several years and I
don't believe that the process is ongoing. The markers will not continue to
turn white or yellow depending on light exposure any longer.
A more important question that needs to be answered about patina and that is
How much patina is desirable? Ultimately, this is a personal preference. Some
collectors like watches that look like they came out of the factory and prefer
the white markers, while others like to see a more vintage look with more
patina.
Patina can vary in degrees of intensity on all Rolex vintage watches. I have
attempted to make a scale for easy reference:
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When evaluating patina, the main thing to look for is that markers have nice
EVENLY coloured patina and that they do not have dark spots or streaks
(marbling). Although the darker patinas (5+) can give a watch a really
interesting look, the they tend to be more likely to have markers with
discolouration problems. It is also important to note that matching patina on
the dial with the hands is also important. (See the section on Hands.) Watches
with strong even patinas (3 & 4) are highly sought by collectors and bring
strong premiums!
Dial Imperfections
Due to natural aging, minor dial defects are acceptable and unavoidable when
collecting Red Subs.
1. Broken Hash marks are the most common minor imperfection found on Red
Sub dials (and other matte Rolex dials). Small parts of some of the hash marks
chip off where the case meets the dial. This chipping occurs when the watch is
taken apart for service. It is so common that it is one of the tells used to
confirm authenticity. Therefore, small chips or missing pieces at the end of a
hash mark touching the case, or even a few hash marks, is normal. However, if
an entire hash mark is missing, then this can be easily seen with the naked eye
and has an adverse effect on value.
2. Tiny chips where the dial meets the case are also fairly common. When
they are and difficult to notice with the naked eye, it is not a problem. I
would avoid dials that have chips that are larger.
3. Tritium Loss on the markers Red Sub dials is fairly common and is
perfectly acceptable. I would try to avoid watches with dials that have large
chunks of missing tritium to the point where it is a distraction.
4. The Red Writing (Submariner) on dials that have Red over White
printing is almost always imperfect due to the manufacturing process used to
create the dials. It is normal for these dial versions (Mark I, III, IV) to
show some white on the edges of the letters. It is also natural for some white
to show through the red lettering.
Aftermarket Parts aka Fakes
Watches that have aftermarket dials, also known as fake dials, should be
avoided at all costs. Most of these watches have many other fake parts and you
are probably buying a few hundred dollars in parts for thousands of dollars!
It is also a good idea to stay away from watches with refinished dials. These
are dials that have been scraped of all original print material and then
reprinted, usually very poorly. I have seen claims that the dial is an original
Rolex dial, which is technically true, however once refinished they are pretty
much worthless.
I would also stay away from relumed dials because these dials never look as
good as the original factory finish. Relumed dials are more acceptable on older
gilt models, depending on rarity and condition of the rest of the watch. Red Sub
markers typically do not degrade enough to warrant redoing. Therefore, Red subs
with relumed dials have a very low demand and trade at steep discounts.
Hands
Hands should match the patina on the dial. If hands do not match, have been
relumed, or have been changed to Luminova, it can be an eyesore. However, hands
can be replaced without too much effort. But depending on the patina, they can
be difficult to find in the right colour. If you buy a watch that needs hands
to be changed, hopefully, you are getting a slight discount for this and are
patient enough to find the hands that match. Most collectors prefer matching
tritium hands that do not glow, but Luminova hands can be a nice match to a
dial with very white markers.
I do not mind original hands that have some minor oxidation or corrosion or
even small cracks in the Tritium. As long as these imperfections are not a
distraction, I will not change these hands in order to keep the watch as
original as possible. I only replace hands when they do not match the colour of
the dial patina or have noticeable chunks of missing Tritium.
Inserts
The insert can make the watch and is probably the most aesthetic component
aside from the dial! The most desirable inserts are the FAT FONTS which came
installed from the factory originally. The amount of fading someone prefers is
a personal preference and also depends on the watch for which it is intended.
In the past few years, prices of attractively faded FAT FONT inserts have
increased dramatically. These used inserts fetch high premiums even when they
are scratched up.
I would certainly add a premium if a watch had an especially nicely faded FAT
FONT insert. While inserts are more easily replaced than other components, like
the hands, they can be expensive and difficult to find, keep this in mind when
buying a watch that has a Thin Font service insert.
The thinner font varieties are service replacement inserts and later came with
Luminova pearls. They do not tend to fade and are still available from Rolex today.
They are usable, but they do not enhance the look of a watch like the faded
inserts with the fatter fonts.
There are several versions of Font Thicknesses on inserts and an infinite
amount of variations of fading and wear. the "Thin Font" service
replacement version is 3rd from left.
Pearl Dot
The pearl is one of the least critical components when purveying a Red Sub but
buying a Red Sub that still has a tritium pearl on the insert that is still
intact is like getting the cherry on the cake. Most pearls lost their luminous
material or broke off altogether. Although they can be easily replaced, they
are getting difficult to source.
Aesthetically, the pearl is not part of the dial and hands ensemble and
therefore the colour of the pearl does not have to be as close in colour match
as the dial and hands.
Caseback
The Red Sub casebacks starting with the 2M case numbers and ending with about
3.4M were stamped with a date code starting with II 69, and ending with II 72.
Somewhere in the 3M range, the date code was dropped. It is pretty clear that
all watches from 1973 onward did not have a stamped date code. Rolex service
replacement casebacks did not have date codes.
Case Condition
Next to the dial, the case is the second most important and valuable component
of a Red Sub. Unlike hands or an insert, a case is something you cannot easily
change or improve on a watch without buying another. Therefore, it is important
to gauge the case condition and make sure it is strong enough to suit your
tastes. Most watches will have been polished at least once. It is very rare to
find a Red Sub with an unpolished case. I have learned to treasure such finds
and would pay a very strong premium for an unpolished case even if the watch
has other inferiorities.
Polishing a watch is definitely an art form more so than fixing a watch. It is
very easy to ruin a watch with a bad polish and just because a watch was
serviced at Rolex does not mean anything when it comes to how poorly it was
polished.
One has to remember, that polishing, no matter how light, takes metal off the
watch. Therefore, unless there is a very specific gouge or scratch is causing a
distraction and only in an area that has already seen polishing, I would not
even consider polishing a case any further. I consider this wear part of the
beauty of wearing a vintage watch and eliminates that most awful feeling of
putting on that first scratch on a new or freshly polished watch. The only
thing worse is getting your first ding on that brand new sports car.
Here is a loose guide to evaluating cases in order of priority:
1. Case Engravings The engravings help authenticate the case and
therefore it is important that they are not completely lost from bracelet wear,
pitting or intentional mistreatment. Unlike some earlier Rolex references, Red
Subs generally don't have severe bracelet wear problems or pitting. Therefore,
I would not consider buying a Red Sub with engravings or a case numbers that
have worn off completely. As a minimum requirement, all the case number digits
must be present and accounted for. Even if the digits are missing most of their
form and a 10x loupe is needed to read the numbers, as long as the full case
number can be discerned, then the watch earns a passing grade in my book. Once
the numbers have been confirmed and the band is back on the watch, the strength
of the engravings becomes irrelevant.
2. Lugs Examine the lugs to make sure they are not too thin and that
they are about the same thickness. Sometimes in one of the lugs sustains a
serious injury and the owner has no choice but to over-polish one of the lugs
making it thinner than the others.
3. Crown Guards - Look at the crown guards to see if they have been
polished to a pinch. It is also a good idea to compare the size of the crown
guards, as sometimes one side can be polished significantly more than the
other.
4. Pitting or Corrosion Slight pitting is normal, but Excessive pitting
or corrosion can be detrimental. Check between the lugs and where the case
meets the caseback. Avoid watches that have severe problems with corrosion or
if the pitting completely obliterates any of the digits of the case number.
Crown
Red Subs with case numbers
Although there are no premiums attached to having either crown, it is nice to
see a watch with its original Twinlock crown still in place. This novelty adds
a small flair of authenticity and some reassurance that the watch is still in
its original state.
Bracelet
The bracelets are easily changed and therefore I would not look critically at a
watch without a bracelet or if a watch has a later bracelet. I readily admit
that I am not an expert on bracelets, so if you have any corrections or input,
please feel free to make additions or corrections.
There are 4 bracelets that were manufactured by Rolex that fit Red Subs:
1. The 9315 Folded Link is considered the correct bracelet model for the
Red Sub.
Here are the important points to note:
The model 9315 should be stamped just prior to the end piece on at least one of
the links.
The correct end pieces are stamped 280 or 380
The clasps were date stamped from 67 to 72
Clasps without date stamps are from 1973+
The folded bracelet was manufactured until the late 1970s
The earlier version of the bracelet is known as the Patent Pending and is more
expensive for its rarity and from demand by Double Red Seadweller collectors.
They are stamped from 67 to 70 on the clasp and have Pat Pend stamped on the
diver expansion when it is unfolded.
It is not critical to have the exact year of your watch stamped on your
bracelet or the date on the caseback.
A bracelet that is dated a year or two after the caseback is perfectly fine.
Unfortunately in order to shorten the bracelet, links have to be removed by a
watchmaker or jeweller.
It is also difficult to reinstall the links once removed and the links will be
bent out of shape.
Even bracelets found in superior condition tend to be very loose and feel
flimsy when compared to modern bracelets, therefore most people find that they
do not make a good daily wearer.
2. USA Made Riveted Bracelets -- There have been more than a few Red
Subs that were purchased from original owners that had USA Riveted bracelets on
them. Whether they were originally installed, requested by the customer or
switched by the dealer, we may never know for sure. Don't be surprised if you
find a Red Sub with this bracelet configuration. Keep these points in mind:
These bracelets do not have a model number stamped and are simply known as USA
Made Riveted Bracelets
There is no diver expansion or a flip lock on this bracelet
The end pieces are attached to the bracelet and are not stamped
The clasp is the only component with stamped 'hallmarks'
There is always a date stamps that ranged from the 1960s to the late 1970s
These bracelets have a cheaper feel than any of the other bracelets
3. Occasionally, a Red Sub will be found to have a 7836 Folded Link bracelet
installed. Although it was designed primarily for the GMT and the Explorer
II, the 7836 fits the Red Sub perfectly and can take 280 or 380 end pieces. The
only major difference between the two models was the clasp. The 9315 had the
flip lock and the divers extension and the 7836 did not have these two
features.
4. The 93150 Solid Link with 580 end pieces was introduced in the late
1970s and is fully compatible with the Red Sub. In fact it is the most
comfortable wearing bracelet for the Red Sub as well as other vintage Rolex
models. These bracelets are less expensive than the 9315 because they are more
readily available and are not sought by collectors looking to complete their
Red Sub sets.
I prefer this bracelet for daily wear because it has a great feel/weight and
the end pieces seem to fit better than the earlier models. Also, the links can
be easily removed or added with a small screwdriver.
The Movement
The power plant of all Red Sub models is the Rolex made 1575, however all the
engravings I have ever seen on the rotor bridge are have been marked 1570. The
1575 is the same movement as the 1570, with the exception that the 1575 has a
date function. The same movement was used in all the Rolex sport models like
the 1675, 1655 and the 1665. It is a great automatic movement that is
relatively inexpensive to service with parts readily available. When oiled and
regulated, it can run for many years with great accuracy and dependability.
Since the movement and/or parts are easily obtained, or simply swapped with
much less expensive Rolex models of that period, I would not look to the
movement to verify if a watch is genuine.
If a watch is running strong, it is certainly a plus, but I would not discount
a watch if it is not in perfect running condition. But I would rather get a
watch in its original condition and have it serviced my way. It can be some
trouble and expense to have a service performed, but it is a small price to pay
for a nice original Red Sub. There have been numerous times when I have had
owners who decided to sell their watch take them in for service, only to have
them ruined from a collectors point of view.
Box & Papers
When I first started collecting, I sought out watches with papers because it
helped reassure me that the watches were not stolen or fake. Over some years, I
learned that these are not primary reasons to buy watches with papers. I heard
the statement You can't wear the papers. Many times. The question is why bother
paying all that money for watches with papers? The answer is simple: RARITY.
Rarity means collectability. I was very glad to have made this decision,
because the watched I bought increased in value more dramatically than any of
the loose watches that I collected.
Papers are not for everyone. If you simply want a nice watch for the lowest
possible price and are not looking for an investment, forget the papers, buy a
nice Red Sub and enjoy!
Papers are for serious collectors who are looking for investment grade pieces.
In the recent market upturn, it was clear that because of their rarity, that
watches with papers accelerated in value when compared to loose watches. This
will very likely repeat itself in the next upturn. Most collectors recognize this
phenomena and this is the reason that sets with papers still fetch healthy
premiums.
It is important to note that Red Subs may have come with a variety of papers
from the dealer. The Red Subs that deserve the with papers premium are the ones
that come with either of the PUNCHED GREEN CERTIFICATES (with a matching case
number) pictures here. Even though dealers sometimes used papers on which they
wrote in the case numbers by hand, handwritten papers do not carry the same
premium as punched papers. The same applies to blank papers.
The earlier Red Subs had the smaller green paper that was punched. These papers
were printed on thicker stock and had no watermark. They were accompanied by a
small booklet titled "Your Rolex Oyster" in which the back
pages could also be punched. This is called double punched.
Around the 2.8M case number, Red Subs started getting the larger green-border
certificate that was printed on thinner paper and had the Rolex watermark when
held up to a light. The small white booklet is renamed "Your
Rolex" and was no longer punched.
Although the boxes and other accessories are a nice addition to any watch,
given enough time and money, they can all be purchased separately from a
variety of sources, including online. Therefore, I would concentrate on the
core of the acquisition, in terms of condition and punched papers.
A Buying Tip
It is impossible to authenticate a watch to be 100% genuine from pictures
alone. Therefore, I highly recommend that you never buy a watch without the
right to return it or from someone you do not know. Look for sellers who have a
reasonable no hassles return policy and have a good reputation that they want
to protect. One of the most important things is to work with a seller who knows
Red Subs intimately. Sellers who sell a lot of other Rolex models or even more
expensive watches can easily make a mistake when taking a trade and may try to
pass along a problem watch, sometimes unwittingly, to an unsuspecting buyer.
Proving a watch you bought is a fake to someone who only cares about their cash
flow is not all that easy. If you are lucky enough to have used a credit card
with buyer protection in this situation, you may still have a tough time
getting your money back. It may come down to having a third party give you a
written evaluation. This is not an easy task even where an obvious fake is
concerned. Even Rolex will refuse to take sides or do anything on your behalf
in this situation. The best thing to remember is the saying "buy the
seller not the watch."
Mark Lerman