Sub-versive | Vintage Rolex Submariner theme: 6200 - 5508 - 5512 and more...

Oct 03, 2013,03:38 AM
 

A “theme”. It is something that is mentioned on these forums so frequently. I have a good friend from Sweden who takes his themes very seriously. Not only does a theme often imply getting every version of a particular reference, it also means getting the documentation, boxes and as much associated paraphernalia as possible. Yet, I have often considered a theme complete with just one version of a watch. Then, take a look at Nicolas’s fantastic Fifty Fathom collection, or indeed Bill’s stunning array of Submariners. The depth of the theme is immense and the necessary room to complete such themes needs to be large. 


But make no mistake, themes can make collecting great fun and can add some real spice to how one views a collection. With that in mind, I am going to touch on my own theme on Submariners. As a collector of vintage Rolex, my collection could not be complete without a Submariner. Yet, the range of Subs available is so great and so wide that it would be almost impossible to cover all bases. So, I had to make a decision on how I could complete my theme of Submariners without having to build a collection of 20 or more Submariners! I believe i have done so with a much smaller number. For me, it completes my theme and has covered a wide range of angles.


So....where to start? Lets go chronologically....6200










Nicolas, Marcello and I got into an interesting debate about which watch qualifies as the VERY first Submariner. Its open for debate, I think, depending on how one defines “first”. First to be sold officially? First to be manufactured as a Submariner? First to be catalog’d? One thing that we do know for certain is that the very first Submariner Big Crown was the 6200. For me, to have a small but focused collection of Subs, the 6200 Big Crown is an integral component.


Launched in 1953/4, and in production for just one year, the 6200 carries the 3-6-9 Explorer dial, a lollipop hand.... and of course a large winding crown. And of course, a gilt dial. The watch also carries immense personality. Only by having it on the wrist can one sense the intensity of the watch and feel the history that it created. Rolex has become the most famous tool watch in the world. Much of that subsequent fame came on the back of these early diving watches. That may sound an extravagant thing to say, but i think it is reasonable.


Of course, if one has a 6200 Big Crown, it makes sense to partner such a watch with a small crown. The 5508 was produced from 1957 to 1961. My version has a 58iii stamped in its case-back. It carries a "Swiss" only exclam mark, which is often seen in 5508s as early as 58 and through to 61. What does the exclam mean? LoL. That is a widely debated issue and one that I will pursue in a subsequent thread. What I will say is that my 5508 has radium on the dial and has not been transitioned to tritium, despite the exclam....more to come on that. And of course, it is gilt.






And here it is next to its bigger brother.




The 5508 is a very different watch to the 6200. A totally different character. Whereas the 6200 is presidential, the 5508 is very much under-the-radar. It has charm, discretion and not inconsiderable style. It combines sportiness with elegance well. The 5508 and 6200....made within 5 years of each other. Both Submariners, but so different from each other. To complete a Sub theme in just four watches, I needed both

to be included.


The next watch in my gang of four is the 5512. One could almost make a theme of collecting just 5512s as there are so many permutations. My particular favourite is the 2 line gilt. It similarly carries the exclam mark, and unlike the 5508 has tritium on the lume. The 5512 was the first reference to carry protected crown guards. To my mind, it is “the” iconic Rolex look. It has its place in Rolex history courtesy of the crown guards. The first 5512  was launched in 1959, so just after my 5508 was made. The 5512 was produced for a number of years in various formats, but the early versions carried the gilt dial, and that was also a major factor driving me to this model. Gilt Subs just have that something extra. The 6200, 5508 and 5512 in my collection are all gilts. So that leaves me looking for a matt dial for the final member of my gang of 4.








So where to complete the theme? My choice was actually one of my first Sub purchases. The 1680 Red Sub is special for a number of reasons. One obvious one is that it carries red writing on the dial. Not all 1680s do that. My version is a Mk2 dial. But of course, what really sold me on keeping the watch was my growing understanding of the original history of the watch. I have reviewed this watch before - The Ricciardi Red, a watch having the retailer mark of the Argentinian retailer “Ricciardi”. I will be frank, when the dealer showed me the markings, I was very dubious, but with the research that followed, I have come to realise how special the retailer was and how unusual having the watch is. It carries a matt dial, making it different to the other Subs in my collection and of course the cyclops. The 1680 was first launched in 1966 through to 1980. It was also the first Sub to carry a date function.






Are there any holes in this theme? Well, it might make sense to have a 5517 in there or maybe a 5513 Maxi....these are all possibilities. But to be honest, I look at my four and there is not one of them that i would replace with either a 5517 or a 5513. I don’t feel any holes in this Sub-theme. It is a great feeling to look at a theme and be satisfied with how it has worked out. A sense of completion. 


But to be honest, a sense of completion about a theme is “totally” within our own control. We are our own taskmasters in this sense. A theme can be complete with just one watch, with four, with twenty....or indeed with none! That is the beauty and horror with watch-collecting themes.


This is how I have viewed creating my own Sub theme. I am curious what others think.....would you consider I have missed something critical or perhaps that one reference is not necessary? How would you construct a theme? I am curious as I am sure plenty of people go through the thinking around the methodology of collecting. I know i do!! Could one have just one of these and consider it a completed theme? Which one? 







This message has been edited by Baron on 2013-10-03 03:46:24


More posts: 168055085510551255135517620065366536/16538ExplorerGiltLollipopRed SubSeamasterSubmarinerSubmariner Date

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Comments: view entire thread

 

Nice theme

 
 By: Le Monde Edmond : October 3rd, 2013-04:04
Firstly a fantastic post with some very very nice watches. My to my taste I have to admit ;) You indeed have covered your submariner bases very well. Your collection includes a very important member of the group. My respect for you to have found such a ni... 

Edmond....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 3rd, 2013-04:12
.....it is because it is non-gilt that it NEEDS to be there to fit the place of a non-gilt Sub. If i went 4 gilts, I would miss that Red Sub non-gilt...so to my mind it is not an odd choice at all. And of course, there is also a rarity issue running throu... 

Theme

 
 By: Le Monde Edmond : October 3rd, 2013-08:19
Baron, Ofcourse I am going to like your collection. Its first class. Not only will 99% of the worlds population never own such a collection because of the monetary value, but much more importantly they will not own it because it takes much passion and kno... 

Edmond...

 
 By: amanico : October 3rd, 2013-04:31
Don't dream too much on the 6200. I am first on the list, and Joe is not Angelo... ;) Best, Nicolas.

A bigger hint...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 3rd, 2013-05:07
.....perhaps nobody should dream....could become a nightmare

See message above ;) [nt]

 
 By: Le Monde Edmond : October 3rd, 2013-08:20

6200 and Small Crowns are the top, in my book.

 
 By: amanico : October 3rd, 2013-04:15
An elusive 7922 small crown, and the big sister 7922 ( BC as it also came with a big crown ) or 7924, that would be cool. As well as some other military Tudors, as we are speaking about Subs: 7016 / 94010 M.N, or 7928 CI.... A Seadweller, too, as the SD i... 

SDs...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 3rd, 2013-05:06
.....an interesting point you make there...yes, i think originally SDs were a part of the Submariner group. But i think over time they have morphed into a reference all of their own...so i excluded them from the theme!

They were!

 
 By: amanico : October 3rd, 2013-06:24
The evidence by the picture: A certain Double Pïnk i had the pleasure to admire... ;) Best, Nicolas ...  

But they became different...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 3rd, 2013-06:40
......i think Rolex started them out as a part of the Sub tea, but then they developed their own very special personality quite distinct from the Subs. To be honest, I have grappled with this a bit, but I always end up seeing the SDs as a reference to the...  

I think that you did something

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : October 3rd, 2013-05:55
with my sub-conscious :) I'm no longer thinking of GMTs after 3 days Thank you dear Joe (or thank you for another nightmare) :) Mrvelous collection and post.... but what else to expect from man who knows his traffic ;) :) Yours D P.S. So 6200 is stake for... 

Very enjoyable read. although the 6200 of course is very special...

 
 By: DivingT : October 3rd, 2013-06:51
I still must admit that I like the 5508 more, I can't explain why, perhaps I'm just drawn towards small circles on a dial, as opposed to numbers. (and perhaps as I keep missing out on them!! LOL! A good post, and I think I would agree - that is pretty muc... 

Thanks Tony...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 3rd, 2013-07:42
.....seemed only right that they had their own box. I can see why the 5508 holds so much charm for people....its such an easy watch to love

Fantastic!

 
 By: SALMANPK : October 3rd, 2013-07:07
What a wonderful collection of Subs but the 6200 is the Holy Grail, the Legend for me, one day it shall be mine... Thanks for sharing :-) S

Absolutely stunning !

 
 By: Mike H : October 3rd, 2013-07:11
I am speechless. For a vintage lover as I am, these are definitely THE Subs ! I would however certainly add also a maxi dial one as you mentioned, probably the Mark 3 which is my favourite one (aka lolipop). And apart from the great pictures of these grea... 

Hello dear Joe!! What an interesting point you make...

 
 By: Subexplorer : October 3rd, 2013-08:12
... with this thread!! First I wish to comment about your fabulous collection of Subs. I completely agree that any Rolex collection would not be complete with at least one Sub. You know that I´m a declared fan of Submariners, and that it was the watch whi... 

wise man !!!!

 
 By: marcello pisani : October 3rd, 2013-10:53
"will say that my 5508 has radium on the dial and has not been transitioned to tritium despite the exclam....." ...  

the smiley was obviously....

 
 By: marcello pisani : October 3rd, 2013-10:55
referred to me ... LLOOLLLLLL

Joe, I agree with you

 
 By: Peppo : October 3rd, 2013-13:49
for every single word you wrote, and I think you've just focused the pure essence of the Submariner history. But, and you know there is always a "but", if I should choose a single - iconic - model from the huge Sub's family I will point my finger toward t...  

Fabulous....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 4th, 2013-00:47
.....and by the way i do agree on the SeaDweller .... but i see SDs as an entirely different branch....almost NOT Subs! Your 6200 is a dream.

glad that ( besides a French guy ) I'm not alone ....

 
 By: marcello pisani : October 3rd, 2013-14:56
after years spent bearing " the geiger brainwashing " ..... to think that the excl. point doesn't mean the use of tritium on indexes .... and how I used to say years ago ... " a Geiger a day takes Marcello away " .... LLLOLLLLL maybe also the damned under...  

Thanks Logan.....appreciated

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 4th, 2013-00:45

Great post, I have always wondered the same thing...

 
 By: ik2000 : October 3rd, 2013-21:00
And superb examples that I think you hit the nail with in terms of themes.... they can be as big or small as you want them to be... great pics, and great examples of each, thanks for sharing, and helping to guide the rest of us!!

Spectacular theme and the watches are all....

 
 By: SteelerFan1965 : October 4th, 2013-02:37
Pristine examples!! Congrats on each one of them as I know all are special.....Cheers,

5508 variations

 
 By: Le Monde Edmond : October 4th, 2013-13:42
Joe & Nicolas, Perhaps you can help. I just came across a 5508 that is a 4-liner. SCOC below submariner also in silver like the meters rating. How rare are those? I have never seen or heard of a 5508 4liner up until now. Thank you for your answers, Ed... 

There are many

 
 By: Peppo : October 4th, 2013-14:03
or, at least, I've already seen some of them during the time. Usually they came from the latter production, let's say 1961/62 (around 700.000 serial). Here is a pic from the net. ...  

thank you

 
 By: Le Monde Edmond : October 4th, 2013-14:54
for your answer. Its how I learn everyday something new! E

1958/1959

 
 By: Le Monde Edmond : October 15th, 2013-11:11
A well known and very respected dealer has a 5508 from 1958/59. Is that something to worry about or could that have been possible in original dial form? Thank you for your help Peppo, Edmond

A picture could help

 
 By: Peppo : October 15th, 2013-23:27
Do you mean a '58/59 four lines ?

Another great post, Baron!

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : October 5th, 2013-11:59
Themes... And Grails... Been thinking a lot on these topics lately... Will try to share something soon. Best Blomman

top league!

 
 By: MattS : October 20th, 2013-04:49
Dear Joe, Your fab four is fantastic! You already play in the top league! One could not dream of a better choice, not to say that they all are in a spectacular condition. Themes are great in a collection as they allow to bring some focus and consistancy. ... 

Matt...

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : October 20th, 2013-05:31
....SOOOOOOOO "helpful" Subs are deep in more than one way....some would say a pit!!