Entitlement and the humblebragger

Dec 05, 2017,05:35 AM
 

There are many types of people who collect high end watches. Recently, there has been a series of  heated discussions about those who buy something predominantly because of the need to show the world that they own something valuable. It is argued that there is no real horological understanding from this type of collector beyond the need to show-off and be seen with what others deem prestigious. It is seen as very important to own something that others view as desirable. Indeed, it is argued that one will often see this type of collector seek reassurance that their watch is seen as desirable.


Further, it is argued that this type of collector is usually a modern watch buyer, as targets can be achieved relatively simply by having the cash to walk in and buy one. Vintage, it is argued, is seen as requiring research and understanding.  Such research requires work that this type of collector sees as pointless. This type of collector will buy what he believes others will instantly recognise as a valuable and prestigious watch. The psychology here, I think, is that respect and admiration can, in some way, be bought.


The owner of the watch “accessory” is often a master of the “humblebrag”. The latter is a term I discovered this year. It is, I am told, the hallmark of the insecure.


“Oooh, if I buy that Minute Repeater, then I won’t have much left in my pocket book for a new Ferrari.”

“I must get myself a cheap Vacheron as using my standard Patek Philippe Tourbillon to go rock climbing just won’t do.”

“The cost of good staff for my homes in the Bahamas, London, New York and Paris these days is getting so high. How will I ever buy my next split second?”

“I only own 50 Audemars Piguet watches. I wish I was rich.”

“I just can’t remember where I left my Patek Sky Moon Tourbillon. I am sure it will turn upon at some point.”


You get the drift! Once you see one humblebrag, then they start to become quite obvious.


Now, imagine how the long-term collector views this? Imagine how the guy who has been collecting watches for 25 years views this development. Imagine someone who places great store on knowledge and understanding of watches and of research and intelligent discussion. Imagine the collector with a much more limited financial backdrop. Imagine a collector for who each watch purchase is a financial burden. How might he view this situation?


Obviously, I am creating not only one stereotype collector here but two, with attributing hypothetical traits. But recent debates on various forums have drawn attention to this issue and it seems to me worthy of discussion. A part of the issue is that far from buying respect and admiration, the humblebrag show-off approach actually attracts disdain. Certain collectors see it and find it so far-removed from their own approach as to be unacceptable for the forum.


Now, my question is this: is this type of hypothetical collector every bit as entitled to approach watch collecting as other collectors who have very different criteria for collecting? For example, I know of one collector who is extraordinarily specific in what he deems as acceptable criteria for watch collecting. Anal-retentive even. It is, in fact, so rarefied that virtually all watches fail his specific benchmark. Now, of course, that collector is entitled to their approach. That is what makes watch collecting so interesting. Yet, is that collector entitled to denigrate another collector’s view simply because it does not meet the benchmark set by him for his own collecting? How do we evaluate the former type of collector? Do they have AS MUCH entitlement to their approach and thoughts as everyone else? To me, it is a question for which I am not sure I have a clear answer.


This question needs to be set within some parameters. For example, the forum has a guideline for how members should behave that goes broadly along the lines of a requirement to behave with the type of manners and respect that one would show at a dinner or cocktail party where one may not know all the other guests. The guideline is, I think, broadly in this spirit.




This message has been edited by MTF on 2017-12-11 02:47:15

  login to reply

Comments: view entire thread

 

Great read, Baron, I had to chuckle a few times ;)

 
 By: crown comfort : December 5th, 2017-06:00
In principle, everyone is entitled to do what he likes (within the borders of the law of course) and I do not want to judge the approach. That does not mean that I would personally admire it, but that's my problem not the problem of the other guy. The wor... 

What brand?

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 5th, 2017-06:07
Oh I can’t remember. I don’t pay attention to anything worth less than half a mill.

This is well put

 
 By: Harry2 : December 5th, 2017-12:14
I think here we have appreciation for all watches of interest, so to speak. I think any Purist would enjoy reading about a watch that is presented in an engaging manner. A $50 digital watch that has been a useful and reliable piece of gear would stimulate... 

In terms of our forum...

 
 By: Rogi : December 5th, 2017-06:09
I think the main goal of it is respect, if one sees someone posting a diamond studded, gold, platinum etc. piece we are genuinely happy for them, because it is the perfect piece for them. I take collecting in this way , I believe that every piece is desti... 

Rogi

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 5th, 2017-06:13
Really enjoyed your answer. Thoughtful and insightful. Much resonance.

+1000 [nt]

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : December 5th, 2017-09:04

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : December 5th, 2017-06:24
Personally, I feel each individual is entitled to his own opinion and approach to everything in life, including watch collecting. After all, it is his/her own funds and they can do with them what they like. As to the 'humblebrag' aspect of it, I believe t... 

Yes

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 5th, 2017-06:28
Respect and open opinion. We don’t have to agree with it. Or even engage with it. But to openly abuse it goes beyond the framework. Indeed.

Precisely.

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : December 5th, 2017-07:46
A respectful, welcoming and inclusive environment. Just like with everything else, if you don’t like it, don’t participate. It is your own choice.

Love the Sky Moon Tourbillon part...

 
 By: andrewluff : December 5th, 2017-06:36
Does that relate to MTF as he mentioned misplacing a watch recently My opinion for what it is worth... everyone collects different things... some people stamps and others gold coins, some people vintage cars and others supercars, some even are plane-spott... 

MTF has a sky moon tourbillon? No. Really?

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 5th, 2017-07:49
Thanks for reading Andrew. And for thoughtful response.

Lol interesting read Baron.

 
 By: patrickmaniac : December 5th, 2017-06:47
I got to confess that I do not have a ton of money to splurge on watches. And I have come across characters that you mentioned in your sharing. one of the the thoughts that I use before getting a watch is “ if this Watch was a different brand, and given a... 

I had that thought only yesterday!

 
 By: Harry2 : December 5th, 2017-12:29
Lucky there are other forum members sharing my pain Oh, the humanity!

:D [nt]

 
 By: Spangles - Dr. Tabby : December 5th, 2017-13:49

To each his own

 
 By: dedestexhes : December 5th, 2017-07:14
I would be the last person to judge about the way how people look at watches. I must confess that sometimes people, collectors, are carried away a bit too much in the other direction. That results in statements as : it is a piece of art.... One must be ca... 

Don't we all ......

 
 By: colinwillsher : December 5th, 2017-07:33
whether we prefer the precious stone encrusted timepiece or the sober, restrained classic - and everything else in between - secretly hopeto some extent that other people will recognise our status and our taste by the watch we wear?

No.....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 5th, 2017-08:35
99.5% of the time, the people I meet have absolutely no idea at all whether my watch is a grand complication or a freebie from Amazon. I work from home on my own by a screen. I don't think a watch represents an opportunity to have my taste or status recog... 

—-

 
 By: KMII : December 8th, 2017-05:28
Expressed myself badly and decided to delete the post.

do i want my taste or status endorsed?

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 8th, 2017-05:36
Shared? Yes. Endorsed? No. I thought one of the beauties of PuristS forum was to share our passion with people who understood what it is like to buy and collect watches. I didn't think it was an endorsement process. Blomman really is not a fan of my 5650G... 

Sorry if I expressed myself badly...

 
 By: KMII : December 8th, 2017-05:51
It was not my intention to be disparaging or to upset you. What I meant to say was more that even if we have little interest in having 99,5% of people in the street recognising our watch, we like to come here to discuss our joint passion. Once again sorry... 

Not upset at all....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 8th, 2017-05:53
.....i think i ansewered your question. Not upset in the slightest. Share.....yes. Endorse......no.

Sorry...

 
 By: KMII : December 8th, 2017-06:02
My reading comprehension these days is far from the best

Excellent post dear Joe

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : December 5th, 2017-08:32
Awesome "quotes". My whole collection is worth Patek platinum buckle crown and crock strap...yet I cherish it with my life...humblebrag...excellent term... on other hand a lot of heavy collectors here who I appreciate dearly for their down to earth approa... 

D.......i always appreciate your love of your collection.....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 5th, 2017-08:38
.....how each watch means something to you beyond a dollar bill. To each his own...... live and let live.....respect.... Frank honesty.

Agreed.

 
 By: zabreg1 Mr White : December 5th, 2017-09:10
A true collector gentleman.

Never do anything out of hunger. Even eating ;) [nt]

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : December 5th, 2017-09:22
No message body

I'm a little confused...

 
 By: ThomasM : December 7th, 2017-15:30
Hi, Damjan, "To each his own is correct but losing 5 digits watch and finding it inside used corcks box or driving Fiat worth my lifetime salary is completely different ballgame.." What is the context and what does it mean? Cheers, TM

Very interesting read .

 
 By: Watchonthewrists : December 5th, 2017-09:08
For me the key word is RESPECT . I dont care if somebody has got a collection thats worth 1M or €10 . As long as someone respects me with my hobby i will treat them the same way back . I realy can enjoy a good read about someone how just got a new watch a... 

Yes, to each his own...

 
 By: blomman Mr Blue : December 5th, 2017-09:41
Very interesting topic, Baron! There is no straight or right answer here... Within the boundaries of the place (in this case this forum)! As long as the opinion and the way its expressed is within the "rules of engagement" I think we all are entitled to a... 

I think that is a well-reasoned view......

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 5th, 2017-09:45
....and again, it comes back to manners and respect.

My favorite quote from Saint Exupéry

 
 By: Chrisparet : December 5th, 2017-10:52
in French ( sorry I can’t translate it ) : si tu diffères de moi, frère, loin de me léser tu m’enrichis ... So true and applicable to all aspects of life Best Christian

My pleasure my friend 🙏

 
 By: Alkiro1 : December 10th, 2017-23:39
Best wishes Alkiro

I think the best contribution I can make to this is as follows

 
 By: Harry2 : December 5th, 2017-12:25
We are all braggers in a way, otherwise why would we show our watches to other enthusiasts and understand the value and enjoyment of giving each other positive feedback about each other’s watches. However, this is healthy. Watches are important to us here... 

I see a lot of myself in this post, Harry.

 
 By: asonstuf : December 5th, 2017-13:31
This is a great thread with some interesting responses. I, too, had no idea what a humblebrag is. I guess it's the blowhard for the new generation ( which is my generation I guess)! Another angle to think about: I believe this behavior to be more prevalen... 

You’ve made some excellent points.

 
 By: Harry2 : December 5th, 2017-15:37
I suppose this is all about context isn’t it

Very succinct!

 
 By: asonstuf : December 6th, 2017-13:38
Context it is! I wish I had summed it up so nicely

it is certainly a big part of it

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 7th, 2017-03:48
.....a year or so ago, I had dinner with a member of this forum who i had never met before. We got on very well. He had brought a number of watches for me to see. On the table in front of me, he produced watches taht must have been worth well over $100k. ... 

Yes, it does.

 
 By: asonstuf : December 7th, 2017-12:45
We use our 'truths' (biases) to draw conclusions and make decisions everyday, don't we?

“ ... It wouldn't be my first choice, but it clearly has some unique features I haven't seen before”

 
 By: cazalea : December 5th, 2017-18:19
That’s a polite, cocktail party way of commenting on another person’s ride (or watch). Would this be a humble-brag? “I wanted this Grand Complication watch so much that I traded 5 other watches and a 911 for it; the Porsche was going to need tires soon an...  

humblebragger- Hmmm - love the term . A contradiction if I have ever heard of one

 
 By: watch-guy.com : December 5th, 2017-19:36
Yes , there are many types of collector and yes most like to get a bit of positive feedback from their fellow collectors. I think this occurs in most fields of collecting, we are basically insecure creatures and love a bit of positive affirmation How ofte... 

I think you nailed it, Julian.

 
 By: TheMadDruid : December 10th, 2017-11:04
Your points, however, are making me reevaluate a recent post of mine. Thanks for these words of wisdom, honestly. What you've said here is something to keep in mind going forward.

Yes.

 
 By: ThomasM : December 10th, 2017-11:17
Hi Julian, "Not sure  they can be classifies as a Purist , however that certainly does not preclude him from posting here , however due to the nature of the population here, the HB generally does not get the gratification he needs and moves on" A key poin... 

I agree with you on a couple of points

 
 By: MTF : December 6th, 2017-00:35
baron, Your erudite and eloquent, provocative piece resonates with many and I count myself as one of them. We have a couple or three PuristS' adages that have served us well. " Seeking perfection in an imperfect world. " All who enter our fora have their ...  

All aboard the good ship PuristS....

 
 By: Baron - Mr Red : December 6th, 2017-10:49
.....a welcome for all. Other than racists. They will still get thrown overboard.

I'm soaping a plank :) [nt]

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : December 6th, 2017-11:01

Well said ;-) [nt]

 
 By: Ornatus-Mundi : December 10th, 2017-06:18

Lol glad someone got it...

 
 By: ThomasM : December 10th, 2017-10:48
This community has always been about inclusiveness, and except in particularly egregious cases it has always been our culture that individuals who feel this community is not for them choose to leave rather than being pushed out by other community members,... 

I didn't get it and neither did some people

 
 By: MTF : December 10th, 2017-12:17
Magnus, That's why you have a PhD. I did not get it and had to ask for clarification But I was not alone. Very deep. Regards, MTF